The true identity of
Revelation’s Babylon
The “fall” of America --- fact or fiction? Many predict Modern day America’s demise by
nuclear war and claim the bible supports their theories
A great many people have predicted the “fall” of
All of those predictions without exception are based on “misinformation” perpetuated by those who don’t understand the true prophecy of the scriptures in full context.
Since there are many proponents of the notion that America is the “Babylon” of Revelation --- what goes for one goes for all ---- If the trunk of one tree can be chopped down then all the other trees can similarly be felled by the same axe and that axe is the sure word of prophecy from the word of God itself.
Revelation
chapters 17&18 are not associated with
The
“full” context is the first and last consideration always:
Without the full context it is far too easy to jump to conclusions and the full context in this case is the whole bible and all other prophecy that relates to the point in question and any other topic under consideration.
In this case it should only be necessary to give the context in chapter 17 that goes with 18 and beginning in chapter 17 with the true starting point of that particular prophecy.
Here point by point is that full explanation as to why America is not even mentioned In Revelation at all except as a small contingent in the sealing of the 144,000 as the “Manasseh” of Rev. 7:6
The
prophecy’s opening or beginning point:
And there
came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me,
saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth
upon many waters: KJV
Revelation 17:1
Point one: While
The woman is depicted in Revelation 17:3 as sitting on a scarlet coloured “beast.”
So he carried
me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet
coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten
horns. KJV Revelation 17:3
This verse supplies a little more detail as to the woman’s identity by the “nature” of the beast that she is sitting on i.e. one having “seven heads and ten horns”.
The angel revealing this final judgment on “the Woman” leaves no doubt as to its identity by supplying an interpretation to go with these passages of scripture “defining” the woman in verse 7,9,15&18 as follows:
And the
angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the
mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven
heads and ten horns. KJV
Revelation 17:7
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven
mountains, on which the woman sitteth. KJV Revelation 17:9-10
And he
saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where
the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. KJV Revelation 17:15
And the woman which
thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of
the earth. KJV Revelation 17:18
These are the essential or “summary” verses detailing the
angel’s interpretation as to the “identity” aspects of the woman and as anyone
can see the verse in Revelation 17:18 definitely asserts that the woman “rules”
over other “kings” of the earth and by virtue of that fact also rules over the
nations of those kings by implication.
The other verses in between are also identifying verses but are more associated with the woman’s actions and/or activities that are associated with it or going on around it. Those verses will be dealt with a little later.
In verse 5 a name is given to the “woman” as an introductory description and almost “title” defining that she is the “mother” of harlots:
And upon
her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY,
KJV
Revelation 17:5
A comparison to the
ancient nation of Israel’s make-up into the original 12 tribes is in order “for
clarity” as follows:
Since the main consideration is chiefly the claim made by
many to be able to “identify” America in the book of Revelation then the origin
of the descendants of modern America and its roots in history and earliest
beginnings must be taken into account therefore.
**An article at our website already sets out the finer
details and so that is given as a reference here for consideration as well, the
title simply being: “The Hand of God”
*** Since there has been much material written
claiming to be able to trace the origins of the ancient tribes of Israel we
felt that our own understanding would suit our website better than that which
other men have written. Our personal
understanding which the “Hand of God” article represents is built on the
understanding of others that have gone before us and is based “loosely” on J H
Allen’s work to a certain extent and parts of another religious leader’s work
of last century, one H W Armstrong, who built on his understanding also by
re-writing Allen’s work in a more understandable “updated” modern version but
has since his death in 1986 been declaimed as a plagiarist for neglecting to
acknowledge that the source of much of his “re-write” in the form of his “USA
and Britain in prophecy” book was mostly based on or from Allen’s work in fact.
Since man
has been plagued by misinformation and subject to error on an almost constant
basis perhaps nobody has the perfect tracing of origins of the biblical
“Israelite” nations to their ancestral beginnings down pat --- But J H Allen’s
“Judah’s Scepter and Joseph’s Birthright” is a work that is held in high esteem
by some as one of the best for such tracings.
An overview of that work can be seen at Wikipedia and a copy is also
available at “bible study.org” as well.
Our version is what we decided jointly could actually be “confirmed” in
the scriptures themselves and doesn’t attempt interpretation of or future
projections of prophecy of any sort as we consider that private
prognostications that are “outside” the word of God itself are of little value
in ascertaining the truth and therefore of dubious worth.
The Old Testament does in fact give the origin of two nations that were to have descendants down through history “in perpetuity” as promised to the descendants of the founder of the 12 tribes of Israel which was Abraham and carried through his sons and following patriarchs Isaac and then in turn Jacob who was re-named “Israel” by God.
One of Israel’s sons, Joseph, did in fact according to scripture have two sons that were born to him while serving the Pharaoh in Egypt as second in charge of that nation of that time that the Israelites were only a family of about seventy five souls and had to go to Egypt or perish because of a severe drought in the region of those times.
The two sons Ephraim and Manasseh were Egyptian on their mother’s side and Hebrew on their father’s side but as the biblical record shows they were adopted into the original twelve tribes to in effect create a 13th or “split” tribe of Joseph.
Israel [Jacob] pronounced certain blessings on the two boys that would be honored and upheld by God down through all the ages of those descendants until the second coming of Jesus.
Since the other tribe’s origins are not under discussion and therefore not required in this brief summary and details of all those things can be found elsewhere suffice it to say that the promises/blessings that followed and flow through to those descendants are enumerated in this quote below and that is all that is needed to confirm that there has never in all earth’s history been a single great nation such as America and a Commonwealth of nations such as that of the British Empire [as “brother” nations and linked to the same heritage] anywhere on earth that fulfilled and continues to fulfill and confirm those promises made to Ephraim and Manasseh. The biblical record speaks for itself therefore:
The “promises”/
blessings were first confirmed to Jacob/Israel as follows:
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy
name shall not be called any more Jacob, but
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be
fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee,
and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac,
to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land. KJV Genesis 35:10-12
These
significant birthright blessing were later confirmed and conferred to Joseph’s
two half-Egyptian sons by Israel’s adoption of them as his own descendents
8 And
9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my
sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray
thee, unto me, and I will bless them.
10 Now the eyes of
11 And
12 And Joseph brought them out from between his
knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.
13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his
right hand toward
14 And
15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before
whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life
long unto this day,
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil,
bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the
name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a
multitude in the midst of the earth.
17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his
right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his
father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my
father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19 And his father refused, and said, I know it,
my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but
truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall
become a multitude of nations.
20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee
shall
21 And
This is actually “a prophecy” of no
small import and significance for both our “modern” future and the question
under consideration for these are the bare bones or “backbone” of all the
English speaking peoples original ancestry and all future prophecies from that
point onwards to the second coming and beyond concerning these peoples.
The entire bible as
well as both old and New Testaments is a record of God’s dealings with all His
chosen peoples including the Jews and their other “brother” tribes descended
from the patriarch Israel of which Ephraim and Manasseh are but two --- but a
very critical two because they were the recipients of the “Birthright” promises
as these verses show quite clearly --- beyond a shadow of doubt. Their brother tribe the Jews were the
recipients of the “Sceptre” promise.
**
reference J H Allen’s work for detailed explanations on the scepter and
birthright promises.
The English
speaking peoples are Hebrews by adoption by the patriarch Israel himself and
approved therefore by God Himself --- and are no less Israelites than any of
the other 11 tribes of that day were and were given birthright promises that
the other 11 were not given and which are still underway and in operation to
this day in spite of what many have said to the contrary about the fall of the
British Empire and predicted “fall” of the USA.
** There is a reason and prophecies covering
why America and Britain are seemingly declining towards a supposed fall and
destruction --- but those prophecies are in Jeremiah and are related but have nothing directly to do with the
birthright promises and do not end in prophesied destruction as nations.
Those prophecies are to be found in our related articles at our website titled
“The Isaiah promises” and “the Jeremiah promises”
The entire bible,
both Old and New Testaments is a “Hebrew” book written specifically for God’s
chosen peoples and revolves around all of them and nearly all prophecy also
revolves around them and their brother tribes’ future inclusion into the
Kingdom of God at the return of Jesus eventually.
According to God
and there are many prophecies confirming this in spades to the nth degree
--- the descendents of Israel will not
“fall” or be “destroyed” under any circumstances but that account is too
lengthy to impinge on this one by including it here.
Abraham did in fact come from the city of “Ur of the
Chaldees” [KJV] as Genesis states:
Terah took
his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai,
the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the
Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to
1
The LORD had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your
father's household and go to the land I will show you.
2 "I will make you into
a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name
great, and you will be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who
bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will
be blessed through you."
4 So Abram left, as the LORD
had told him; and
On a “technicality” then since the Babylonian Empire was
also Chaldean then that would make the twelve tribes of
The so
called “lost ten tribes of Israel” can be traced to western Europe and their
descendents reside in modern times in countries such as Scandinavia, Denmark
[descendants of the Israelite tribe of Dan] Holland, Sweden, France [
descendants of the Israelite tribe of Reuben ] and of course the British Isles
with the Irish, Scottish and Welsh and the Angles [English] making up the bulk
of that group of tribes that settled in Samaria in biblical times [alongside
their brethren the Jews in Jerusalem and Judea]--- before their captivity to
Assyria from whence they migrated after their captivity from the Caucasian
regions to
Since this
“technicality” would “theoretically” make them all Babylonians then why single
out America and New York in particular as the “Babylon” of Revelation over any
of these other nations of Israel?
Denmark, France,
and a few others of these descendents of Israelite tribes would have just as
many deep water ports that could also “theoretically” qualify just as
“absurdly” as the assertion that
The point being
that God made Abraham’s descendents a different and “new nation” from whatever
their original roots were once they “left” the land they were in. Are
“Australians” still “English” or Australians?
In spite of their original roots Australians
are now Australians i.e. a New Nation in itself and no longer English.
Similarly, are the
English speaking Canadians
The “New” nation
of “
The other point
being that
The last point
and the reason for the enumeration of the ones above is that the early American
colonies were not founded by Italy or Rome but predominantly descendants of
British speaking peoples and therefore its [America’s] roots cannot be said to
be associated with Rome at all or the “beast” so why even posit “a link” to the
Roman “beast” of Revelation 13 --- either the first or the second beasts
therefore?
Common sense and
a little smattering of logic alone tells us there is simply no link
whatsoever to NYC or
With that relatively brief background the return to the
question at hand will have greater meaning and impact in the light of God’s
immutable promises to all who care to take note.
Who
then is the MYSTERY,
Expect surprises! At our website this is the norm for us --- surprise after surprise --- and we never get used to it even after 4 ½ years of intensive study into prophecy --- instead of getting less as you would expect as prophetic knowledge increases --- the surprises are increasing at almost a constant rate --- and there always seems to be more even when we think we’ve got things nailed down tight!
Needless to say we can
tell all and sundry who the woman of Babylon is NOT!
Now,
the actual facts first and then the “prophetic” facts:
1. America has never been more than “one” nation. How then can it be the “Mother” of Harlots? The argument might be used that America is the home of all modern day evangelistic outbreaks of all kinds of conflicting religious ideas and to a certain extent that is true --- up to a point --- but by no means would that qualify America as whore as far as religion goes because the nation itself was founded on sound religious principles by God fearing men who were actually fleeing the religious “harlotry” that abounded in Europe to set up a nation that would be free of religious prejudices and abominable practices that had resulted in many innocents being imprisoned or worse for their religious beliefs.
2. The principles embodied in the American constitution show a nation of founding Fathers completely in accord with the bible and the teachings expounded by Jesus regarding “freedom, liberty and equality”.
3. So that’s two strikes for America being a religious harlot --- do we really need to try for three strikes or more to prove that America is “out” as far as being a religious harlot and the mother of harlots. Religious freedom and equality is still intact at the time of the writing of this article.
4. Since this explanation is intended to be short we need no go further in America’s defense at this point but there are some prophetic facts that don’t fit America that are extant in the prophecy contained in chapters 17&18 and it is these that prove and declare America’s innocence of the crime of being the “Woman” in Revelation chapters 17&18 inclusive and it is these that are going to examined next because even the argument that Britain might be the “Mother of Harlots” and America one of the “daughters” has no credence whatsoever in the scriptures.
The
prophetic facts speak for themselves:
Point
one:
And I saw the woman drunken
with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when
I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
KJV Revelation 17:6
And in her was found the blood
of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. KJV Revelation 18:24
Rejoice over her, thou
heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. KJV Revelation 18:20
These three verses also represent three strikes against America being the Woman in Revelation or even more appropriately the woman in “Red” according to verse 17:6 --- “Drunken” with the blood of saints suggests a great deal of saints blood has been spilt by the woman.
Since when has America ever killed one of God’s Holy prophets or New York killed any of God’s prophets either for that matter? [Verses 24&20 respectively] Can’t recall? Try never!
Of course there may have been a few religious leaders caught up in “the war of independence” or slain in “the American civil war” but you would have to assume there were apostles and prophets among them and they would have to be in God’s true church --- whichever one that might turn out to be. Apostles? --- maybe --- but true prophets of God? Hardly likely since the apostle John was the last “official” apostle and prophet --- notwithstanding there are many self proclaimed apostles and prophets and no doubt a few of them met their demise in both those internal wars --- but could all such be classified as God’s Holy prophets? Only in their own eyes maybe --- even God’s last two real prophets don’t die in America by American “adversaries” do they? How many saints in Modern America have indeed been slain “en masse” over the 200 or so years of America’s existence? Certainly not enough to classify as the “bloodbath” that verse 17:6 suggests in Revelation.
Point
two:
Notice now what happens to Revelation’s “Babylon” at the exact moment of Jesus’ return when the last trump [the seventh plague angel is part of the last trump scenario] sounds and possibly at the same time as the earthquake that follows the resurrection of the two witnesses [Rev. 11:12-13] and possibly the exact moment that Jesus sets foot on the Mount of Olives and the mount of Olives is split according to Zechariah into two halves --- possibly by the same earthquake. [Zechariah 14:4]
16 And he gathered them together into a place
called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial
into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from
the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and
lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were
upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three
parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains
were not found.
KJV
Revelation 16:16-20
There could in fact be two great earthquakes at different times because that would depend upon the length or duration of the seven trumpet plagues of the seventh and last trump.
The point is this though --- the Mount of Olives is split into two and the great city is split into three parts [verse 19] and this means at least the great city can’t be Jerusalem therefore and is probably the one that is referred to in the later chapters of 17-18 as the “woman” and even the last few verses of chapter 19:11-21 because the name Babylon crops up in this verse and practically names it so and it doesn’t stretch the imagination to associate it with those other chapters.
The question then is what “great city” is divided into three parts by that great earthquake? Is it New York? As the proponents of the “America is Babylon” theory would have us believe? Or some other city?
Is New York located on seven hills as the city depicted in Revelation is possibly said to be?
And here
is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. KJV Revelation 17:9
Granted, that “mountain” in prophetic symbolic language can sometimes represent “government” or a nation as in Daniel 2:45 it would depend on what “actual” word was used in the original languages in order to use this verse as proof that it might be referring to a woman or city sitting on seven hills. If the NIV was used it would be a simple matter to establish that this woman was a city that sits on seven hills --- thus:
"This
calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. NIV Revelation 17:9
Putting that aside for the moment let’s consider
Since the author has never been to new York it is an unknown as to whether or not New York has seven viable hills that would fit the NIV’s interpretation should that be chosen but Wikipedia indicates New York is fairly flat and almost at sea level in any case and built on three separate Islands in fact:
Much of New
York is built on the three islands of Manhattan, Staten Island, and Long
Island, making land scarce and encouraging a high population density.
* Excerpt courtesy of Wikipedia article on
While it’s indeed an interesting exercise in logic or is it
“futility” --- because exactly how would God go about dividing a city into
three parts by a great earthquake that is
separated into three natural parts already? Would each
If only one Island was split into three parts by that earthquake --- a city divided into 5 parts would be the result or 6 parts if the bit in the mainland containing the zoo was counted as 1 part. Speaking of that one part how would that be divided into three parts because theoretically it would have to be or the city of New York could not be counted as being so divided if any of the parts or any of the Islands was not split into three parts.
Wouldn’t there then be 12 parts all up? Quite a headache isn’t it?
While it might be a fun and rather amusing exercise in “circular” logic --- and it was --- wouldn’t it be simpler to look for another city that fits the prophetic criterion better?
Is there such a candidate city? You bet there is! The New Yorkers might be pleased at any rate that their city might just be let off the hook as slated for premature destruction by fire and/or earthquake but that last verse in Revelation 16:20 is still a little disconcerting nevertheless for Island dwellers at that future time not to mention mountain dwellers if this scripture is literal and it does indeed seem to be:
20 And every island fled away, and the
mountains were not found.
KJV
Revelation 16:16-20
There is a slight hope that while being literal it might only be referring to local Islands and mountains at the “epicenter” of this massive “one of a kind” earthquake which could be well “off the Richter scale” by all accounts --- let’s hope the collateral damage is not worldwide but even so there would be a “ripple” effect to varying degrees into parts of the world.
The
“one” city that fits the bill --- several times over
It’s now well past time to address some of the other verses that were passed over in order to select those that supported the first points somewhat.
This may surprise some people who advocate that some of the bible is allegorical and symbolic and not literal and so therefore theoretically unfathomable because of that but the bible is actually near enough to 99.99% literal because in actuality the allegorical and symbolic language is actually describing literal events especially in the area of prophecy.
When asked why He spoke in parables by His disciples --- Jesus had the following to say of the people of His day by way of answer:
10 The disciples came to him and asked,
"Why do you speak to the people in parables?"
11 He replied, "The knowledge of the
secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will
have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from
him.
13 This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or
understand.
14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
"`You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever
seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise
they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their
hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
16 But blessed are your eyes because they see,
and your ears because they hear.
17 For I tell you the truth, many prophets and
righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what
you hear but did not hear it. NIV Matthew 13:10-18
So quite clearly parables and even allegory and symbolic language too can be used to hide meaning --- but that doesn’t mean those parables are without meaning just that the meaning is not for everyone to understand because some are simply not ready to handle the truth at any given time but by the same token some are meant to understand for what God purposes for them in their lives.
A few samples from the OT show that parables can also “reveal” hidden meaning:
1 O my people, hear my teaching; listen to the
words of my mouth.
2 I will open my mouth in parables, I will
utter hidden things, things from of old--
NIV Psalms
78:1-2
5 let the wise listen and add to their
learning, and let the discerning get guidance--
6 for understanding proverbs and parables, the
sayings and riddles of the wise.
NIV
Proverbs 1:5-6
I spoke to
the prophets, gave them many visions and told parables through them."
NIV Hosea
12:10
What can be gleaned from these is there may be great meaning in those parables and of course allegorical and even symbolic language that only those who are meant to understand will be able to do so and discern or perceive fully.
The
“woman” of Revelation as we have come to understand it
To understand prophecy fully then it is actually necessary at times to completely immerse oneself in the mind of the prophet or at least place oneself in the shoes of the prophet of the day and perceive things from that prophet’s viewpoint.
Trying to look at prophecy from our times backwards to former times doesn’t do the trick adequately at the best of times and things can be misunderstood because times have changed so getting the full “atmosphere” and “feel” of what the prophet is being told or revealing and his perception of it is critical sometimes especially where obscure prophecy is concerned where other meanings can be easily read into what is actually being said otherwise.
The woman then is unquestionably a “city” because the word of God is literal.
Symbolic language is being used, ergo, hidden meaning is involved.
Question, Why? The apostle John gives the partial answer in the intro to Revelation:
I, John,
your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance
that are ours in Jesus, was on the
Sometimes even reading between the lines and a fertile imagination and a little logic can fill in the blanks in understanding and sometimes the gathering of info from other sources helps if kept within the confines of known parameters of all other prophecy that covers a topic can then be combined as confirmation. But all things must be kept within sound biblical guidelines and only very mild to no speculation is advisable if the passages are too obscure in meaning for any real perception to filter through to one’s mind. At those times it’s best to”wait for enlightenment” rather than press on with wild speculation being the likely outcome if the things of God aren’t handled wisely.
So the implication or subtle hint in being a companion in suffering because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus suggests in this case John wasn’t on the Island by choice necessarily. Most scholars are of the opinion that John was in fact incarcerated there or at a minimum under some form of house arrest and this does seem likely by the wording. So hiding meaning from his warders is a definite possibility and if under the watchful eye of the Romans saying or writing anything about his warder’s country might have cost him or those near and dear to him --- their lives. John would have been thoroughly familiar with the symbolic language of the day and therefore fully capable of using it to conceal the identity of the real city in question in this article.
John was commanded to write:
"Write
on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to
"Write,
therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. NIV Revelation 1:19
Both discernment of the atmosphere and attention to detail can be quite critical to perception of what is hidden or conversely revealed in both parables and symbolic language therefore.
Ok then, John is writing what he sees in vision, what current conditions are like and future events i.e. what will take place later. I.e. three categories, two are delineating that, “timeframes” --- the now and the later, will be referenced and therefore need to be kept separate. Revelation 13 is an example of the now and the later in one chapter that must be kept in perspective to understand the proper perception that two eras or ages are being referred to not one though they appear as one almost.
Question:
Would identification of the “beast” that the woman sits on or rides “symbolically” help to identify that “great city” that is the “mother” of harlots?
Short answer? Yes. Explanation follows:
Background highlights of first beast of revelation 13:
And the
dragon stood on the shore of the
sea. And I saw a beast coming out of
the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and
on each head a blasphemous name.
4 Men worshiped the dragon because he had given
authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the
beast? Who can make war against him?"
5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud
words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two
months. NIV Revelation 13:4-5
He was given power to make
war against the saints and to conquer them. And he
was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. NIV Revelation 13:7
Main points to consider:
[a] Any bible student worth his salt can see that the “first” beast of Revelation 13 was the Roman Empire.
No doubt many a Roman emperor and a great many of that empire’s populace had made the declaration that the Roman Empire was “undefeatable” and for approximately a thousand years or more they were “technically” correct in making that declaration in verse 4 that they evidently did indeed do according to scripture.
[b] The Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and the temple of Solomon during a period of 42 months depicted here in verse 5 i.e. the 67-70 AD “second” Diaspora of the Jews.
[c] The Roman Empire did indeed make war against the saints and for nearly a thousand years --- persecuted and hunted down true believers to almost extinction through many inquisitions and purges of “so called” heretics to the accepted and approved “official” religion adopted by the Roman Emperors and Empire.
Question: Does any of this fit “America” as the “beast” that the woman of Revelation 17-18 symbolically rides?
An absurd question?
You bet it is! Just one more strike against the “America is Babylon” proponents’ theory. How many does that make so far? Three strikes? Expect more.
The second beast of Revelation 13 will be discussed briefly a little later but it is not germane to the main points proffered at this point.
Many have “posited” the Roman Catholic
Church as the “Woman” of Revelation 17-18 --- True or not?
Again the short answer has to be NOT true! Surprised? We said surprises were to be expected and we weren’t kidding!
As stated earlier --- though “liberally laced” with symbolic language from front to back the book of Revelation along with most of the rest of that collection of books known as the Holy Bible is entirely literal in content and context regarding prophecy.
As pointed out symbolic language and/or parables either hide or reveal “literal” events. God obviously leaves it to His servants to “discern” the true meanings of each with whatever “help” he chooses to provide them through the workings of His Holy Spirit therefore. What is certain is that “true meanings” can never be discerned without the Holy Spirit’s influence. That much is self evident in the scriptures themselves --- Old or New Testaments.
Literally then --- CITY means CITY in Revelation 17:18!
The woman you saw is the
great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
NIV
Revelation 17:18
What was the “title”
given to that city again?
This title
was written on her forehead: MYSTERY
The true identity of the “woman” of Revelation revealed
--- at last!
In this article we are not even going to dignify with a “counter” response --- all those other absurd ideas comprising an exceptionally long “list” that supposedly supports the view of America as the “beast” or New York as the only city that could be the ‘woman” of Revelation 17-18 described as above.
What we are going to do is completely dismiss the idea --- if we haven’t already with the three aforementioned strikes already against this absurd notion that goes against all the Abrahamic promises given to the modern descendents of Ephraim and Manasseh and a notion that Emphatically cannot under any circumstances be upheld by scripture in any way shape or form whatsoever!
The “fourth” strike:
Proponents of the
“America is Babylon” with New York in particular identified as the spurious
“woman” city of Revelation belonging to that Babylon are about to be “shot
down” in the mythological flames they claim New York is supposedly going to be
--- allegorically speaking of course!
As we see it the main criterion for identifying
That’s the gist of some of the main arguments proffered by said proponents of New York being that city described in Revelation and that no other city could fit that criterion as well --- primarily because of all those extenuating circumstances and factors and that she has the ideal harbour port and so it’s QED as far as those who claim “America is Babylon” are concerned therefore.
Since this whole premise and scenario is fictitious in the extreme we are reserving the right to “play the role” of a “Perry Mason” type advocate in New York’s “defense” as follows for the purpose of proving otherwise:
The case for the
prosecution, AKA the “
Prosecution’s biblical
evidence:
2 With a mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen!
Fallen is
3 For all the nations have drunk the maddening
wine of her adulteries. The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and
the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."
4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
"Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so
that you will not receive any of her plagues;
5 for her sins are piled up to heaven, and God
has remembered her crimes.
6 Give back to her as she has given; pay her
back double for what she has done. Mix her a double portion from her own cup.
7 Give her as much torture and grief as the
glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, `I sit as queen; I
am not a widow, and I will never mourn.'
8 Therefore in one day her plagues will
overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for
mighty is the Lord God who judges her.
9 "When the kings of the earth who
committed adultery with her and shared her luxury see the smoke of her burning,
they will weep and mourn over her.
10 Terrified at her torment, they will stand far
off and cry: "`Woe! Woe, O great city, O
11 "The merchants of the earth will weep
and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more--
12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and
pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood,
and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble;
13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense,
myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle
and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.
14 "They will say, `The fruit you longed
for is gone from you. All your riches and splendor have vanished, never to be
recovered.'
15 The merchants who sold these things and
gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment. They
will weep and mourn
16 and cry out: "`Woe! Woe, O great city,
dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious
stones and pearls!
17 In one hour such great wealth has been
brought to ruin!' "Every sea
captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living
from the sea, will stand far off.
18 When they see the smoke of her burning, they
will exclaim, `Was there ever a city like this great city?'
19 They will throw dust on their heads, and with
weeping and mourning cry out: "`Woe! Woe, O great city, where all who had
ships on the sea became rich through her wealth! In one hour she has been
brought to ruin!
20 Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints
and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated
you.'"
21 Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the
size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said: "With such
violence the great city of
22 The music of harpists and musicians, flute
players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any
trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a millstone will never be
heard in you again.
23 The light of a lamp will never shine in you
again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again. Your
merchants were the world's great men. By your magic spell all the nations were
led astray.
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of
the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth." NIV Revelation
18:2-24
The charge [pending
conviction]:
"`Woe!
Woe, O great city, dressed in fine linen, purple and scarlet, and
glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls!
The case for the defense
and subsequent prosecution of the “real” culprit:
The defense’s biblical
evidence:
AS ABOVE!
Fortunately since this was intended to be a relatively “short” article
we need look no further than the prosecution’s evidence initially with the
addition of a few more relevant pieces of evidence since we are seeking to
prosecute the real city in question as well as defend
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of
the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth." NIV
Revelation 18:24
To our knowledge none of God’s Holy Prophets have ever
been killed by
20 Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints
and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated
you.'"
Since when have God’s Holy prophets ever visited
I saw that the woman was
drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who
bore testimony to Jesus. When I saw
her, I was greatly astonished. NIV Revelation 17:6
The “defense” attorney’s must add their “astonishment” to
the apostle John’s that New York stands accused of being “drunk” with the blood
of the saints. When did
The defense doesn’t even have to try all that hard to present its case at all really does it?
The additional evidence against
the “real” city as a “defense’ for
The
other half of Revelation 13 and the “second” beast the “modern” “woman/city”
rides on is linked with a Roman Emperor of antiquity and the “first”
beast/Roman Empire
11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the
earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
12 He exercised all the authority of the first
beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first
beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
13 And he performed great and miraculous signs,
even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
14 Because of the signs he was given power to do
on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He
ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the
sword and yet lived.
15 He was given power to give breath to the image
of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who
refused to worship the image to be killed.
16 He also forced everyone, small and great,
rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his
forehead,
17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he
had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight,
let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number
is 666.
The explanation of the number 666 as the number of a "man" in the era just before the destruction of Jerusalem is simple. Revelation was written in Greek but the writer was Hebrew and thought in Hebrew or Aramaic, its equivalent at the time. "[His] name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek [his name is] Apollyon." [Revelation 9:11]
The "ruler of the world" at this time was Nero Caesar. Transliterating his name into Hebrew (Aramaic), it reads Neron Kesar or — more specifically — nrwn qsr since Hebrew (Aramaic) has no vowels. It has been documented by archaeological discoveries that this is the first century Hebrew spelling of Nero's name. When the letters of Nero's name in Hebrew are numbered, you get the following values: n = 50, r = 200, w = 6, n = 50, q = 100, s = 60, r = 200 = 666.
Some manuscripts translate the 666 in the Revelation 13:18 passage as 616. For most of the existence of the book of Revelation, it was copied and/or translated by scholars whose main language was Latin. If the Latin form of Caesar is used instead of the Greek form, the transliteration is nrw qsr which, when numbered, is 616. This would further show that the translators/copiers knew that the scripture was referring to Nero, the Roman emperor, who declared himself to be God
Where then is the
modern city that has all the main criteria listed by ‘the America is
Babylon” advocates/prosecution attorneys that would qualify an alternate city
far more in terms of its past history than NYC in our little court case
scenario?
It would be interesting to put the case for the defense before New York’s TV Judge “Judy” because this next piece of evidence nails down exactly which city is being referred to in Revelation 17-18 --- without doubt:
Some ‘external’ source
evidence and some prophetic evidence:
There is another city although not technically a deep water port in itself has a great deal of shipping passing by its coastal location and would be visible by shipping who could stand off its shoreline and be even more horrified by its destruction than they would be at the loss of New York.
It is an international city with such a rich historical heritage and is a cultural and
central city to a peninsular nation that is important to the European world, a world heritage city in fact that is the nominal home of Christianity and an acknowledged founder of Western civilization and it makes a claim that New York does not --- It lays claim to being “the Eternal city”
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Which city then was actually
responsible for the death of a great many of God’s Holy saints and indeed some
prophets, apostles etc?
7 Give her as much torture and grief as the
glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, `I sit as queen; I am not a
widow, and I will never mourn.'
8 Therefore in one day her plagues will
overtake her: death, mourning and famine. She will be consumed by fire, for
mighty is the Lord God who judges her. NIV Revelation 18:7-8
Ancient Rome during its long reign
over many nations as part of the Roman empire would dwarf any wealth and luxury
known to modern man even today and it did indeed lavish itself with glory and
luxury during its long tenure until about the 1400’s AD when the Roman Empire
“beast” finally succumbed to its gradual decline and Rome was no longer able to
“ride” it anymore, but Rome continues to this day and has far more potential to
ride the second beast of Revelation 13 than does New York which has never had any
association with the beast that is clearly identified in Revelation as being a
continuation of the original Roman beast system.
What torture and grief did
This much was said of the ” first beast” AKA the “Roman Empire” which had “Rome” as the Capital of that empire in the Apostle John’s day and usually a lot of bloodshed is implied in a war:
He was given power to make
war against the saints and to conquer them. And he
was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
NIV Revelation 13:7
Rome (pronounced /roʊm/; Italian: Roma, pronounced [ˈroma]; Latin: Roma) is the capital city of Italy and Lazio,[2]
and is Italy's largest and most populous city, with 2,726,539[1] residents in an urban area of some 1,285.5 km2
(496.3 sq mi).[3]
It is located in the central-western portion of the Italian Peninsula, on the Tiber river.
Rome's history as
a city spans over two and a half thousand years, as one of the founding cities
of Western
Civilization. It was the centre of the Roman Empire, which
dominated Europe, North Africa and the Middle East for four
hundred years from the 1st
Century BC till the 4th Century AD. Rome has a
significant place in the story of Christianity up to the
present day as the home of the Roman
Catholic Church and the site of the Vatican City, an
independent city-state run by the Catholic Church within as an enclave of Rome.
As one of the few
major European cities that escaped World War II relatively
unscathed, central Rome remains essentially Renaissance
and Baroque
in character. Rome is the third-most-visited tourist destination in the European Union,[4]
and its historic centre is listed by UNESCO as a World
Heritage Site.[5]
As a modern city it has been capital of the unified Italy since 1870, and grew
mainly in two periods either side of Word War II.
Excerpt courtesy of Wikipedia article on Rome
When they see the smoke of her
burning, they will exclaim, `Was there ever a city like
this great city?' NIV Revelation 18:18
Which would be the greater loss in world opinion ---
Rome is unique in
having a sovereign state located entirely within its city limits, the Vatican City. The Vatican
is a enclave of Rome and a sovereign possession of the Holy See, the supreme
government of the Roman
Catholic Church. Rome hosts foreign embassies to both Italy and the
Holy See, although frequently the same ambassador is accredited to both.
Excerpt courtesy of Wikipedia article on
Rome is also the seat of significant international organizations of the United
Nations, such as the World Food Programme (WFP), the Food and Agriculture Organization
(FAO), and the International Fund for
Agricultural Development (IFAD).
Excerpt courtesy of Wikipedia article on Rome.
Why would Jesus destroy the nominal home of Christianity?
Which is the real “eternal” city therefore?
It’s simple really, Rome is declared to be a “Holy City” on a par with Jerusalem and God has already chosen which city is to be His Holy City for all eternity and that is pictured in Revelation:
2 I saw the
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne
saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them.
They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their
God. NIV Revelation 21:2-3
So
it would seem
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial
upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men
which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon
the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died
in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon
the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou
art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast
judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and
prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they
are worthy.
Who or what political system/beast probably backed by
And when
they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that
ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome
them, and kill them. KJV Revelation 11:7
And when does all this happen?
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs
come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of
the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working
miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the
battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that
watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his
shame. KJV Revelation 16:13-15
16 And he gathered them together into a place
called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial
into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from
the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and
lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were
upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
And after
three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they
stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them
And they
heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they
ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. KJV Revelation
11:12
13 And the same hour was there a great
earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were
slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to
the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third
woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were
great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and
of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. KJV Revelation 11:13-15
19 And the great city was divided into three
parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains
were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of
heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God
because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding
great. KJV Revelation 16:16-21
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that
with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron:
and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a
name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and
he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of
heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great
God; KJV Revelation 19:15-17
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the
earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on
the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false
prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had
received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These
both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of
him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all
the fowls were filled with their flesh.
KJV
Revelation 19:19-21
Why is the holy City of
As was said in the movie “the Highlander” --- ‘There can be only one!’
Which city is going to be destroyed by God at the second coming by a massive earthquake that splits it into three parts -- New York or Rome?
Which City is therefore the “Woman” of Revelation 17-18 that sat or rode on the beast? Rome or New York?
The defense's summary:
"There is not a single prophecy anywhere in the entirety of the Word of God that shows any of the tribes of Israel "at war" with God. The "prosecution" is invited to search the scriptures to find any such reference.
We bring to the court's attention --- further evidence held among the attorney's for the defense's records namely "The Isaiah promises" document to which was to be added "the Jeremiah promises" as an adjunct and full backup to the promises God made to the descendents of Israel down through the ages. These documents entail and “detail” wide ranging and incredible promises from "the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob"
These are "ongoing" promises showing God's infinite mercy towards his chosen peoples of which "Manasseh" AKA America is but one tribe of the twelve tribes of Israel.
These promises are "immutable" and what we term in our documentation "timeless" promises and the Lord God known as the I Am of Old and New covenants will therefore never renege or Go back on His word to those peoples that comprise those twelve tribes' descendents --- not now, not ever.
The defense rests its case.